The Action Index

T-Time 0:06
Real emo only consists of the DC emotional hardcore scene in the late 90s screamo scene. What is known as Midwest emo is nothing but alternative rock. Questionable, real is what I would say if I were a loser. This is T Time and welcome to the Action Index the podcast that takes a deep dive into the emo scene.

By the 1970s, groups like Bad Brains, Dead Kennedys, and The Sex Pistols pushed the boundaries of punk. These groups made punk angrier, faster and more politically charged and DC punk was no different. And to really understand the origins of the emo genre, that's the scene that we need to take a look at. Dischord Records is an independent record label founded in 1980, by Ian MacKaye and Jeff Nelson, both members of Minor Threat and Teen Idols. The record label only signed DC punk bands and was never intended to turn a profit in any way. It was simply a way to distribute music to fans. Signed to Dischord or bands like Dag Nasty, Lungfish, Shudder to Think and of course Minor Threat. Minor Threat formed in 1980 and would become a huge deal within the East Coast punk scene, they would release a track called Straight Edge expressing their discontentment for alcohol and drug abuse, which was rampant in the scene at the time. This would spawn a subculture by the same name following the message of that song. Later in 1983, Minor Threat would split the members branching off into what could be considered the first emo bands Embrace, Beef Eater, and most notably the Rites of Spring. The breakup of Minor Threat caused the DC punk scene to explode with bands embracing an emphasis on emotional lyrics, harsher vocals, and a more melodic sound overall, which was almost unheard of in the punk scene at the time. Amy Pickering was the frontwoman of a band called Fire Party signed to Dischord Records of course, she used her platform to call out injustices within the punk community and more importantly bring awareness to political injustices around the globe. She looked to book shows and DC community centers that highlighted bands that upheld this inclusivity. This movement happened in the summer of 1985 came to be known as Revolution Summer. In 1986, skate magazine Thrasher coined the term for the growing sub genre in the DC hardcore punk scene, "Emo core". Ian MacKaye, former frontman of Minor Threat, then the frontman of Embrace happen to love the term, quote, "Emo core is the stupidest f******* thing I've ever heard in my entire life". Pretty on brand for the genre. I got the opportunity to have a chat with Amy about the DC punk scene at the time, and her thoughts on emo as a whole.

Amy Pickering 3:03
Hi, my name is Amy Pickering. I worked at Dischord Records for 22 years starting in about 1981 there.

T-Time 3:22
So I was going through the Dischord records discography and saw that you were a part of a band called Fire Party. Do you want to talk about that for a little bit?

Amy Pickering 3:35
Sure. What should I tell you what do you want to know? We we were friends we there were three of us who were playing together. Well, it took a bit to come together as a band we didn't really have a year but we kind of had lots of people who said to borrow my extra or bass or my guitar, whatever you know like pretty good community. So three of us were playing together and we didn't have a drummer and then someone says oh, you should meet Nicky, it's her birthday today by the way.

T-Time 4:07
Happy Birthday!

Amy Pickering 4:10
And then the former sister playing in Natalie's parents basement. It went from there we were together for about 2 years, less than that somewhere around there. Four women playing punk rock. We toured the states once we toured Europe twice with Screen once and with God another time.

T-Time 4:40
Who are you guys's influences?

Amy Pickering 4:45
Wow, that's a big question. It's impossible to answer that. I mean, we're in the Navy punk scene. So there's a lot of that in there you may not hear it but you know clearly we were influenced lot by that.

T-Time 5:02
Absolutely

Amy Pickering 5:03
In practical ways gears, tuning, and the amp with the same sound, you know, all those things. I mean, as we grew, we expanded into our own but we went through a very strong chains addiction period we all need on the road through, yeah, on the road driving across the country that was there a lot. There's so many and each of us have our own favorite bands. It's really hard to...

T-Time 5:38
Right, It's a big question.

Amy Pickering 5:41
Yeah, it's really big.

T-Time 5:43
So, revolution summer, that's a term that comes up a lot in the history of emo and emocore. You organized that correct? Or helped organize it?

Amy Pickering 5:56
Organized is a strong term it was, so there was community, there was a little bit of strife in the community, which is, so I would consider that a little... a lower case, s, splintering, you know, but one of the- when I started thinking about that, and sending out ransom notes, during making them,was that the splintering was really didn't serve any of us. And it was, it was really hard to be a good community with, with the way the, the vibe was. And a lot of that was that, you know, the scene was suddenly growing, there was grunge, there, you know, punk rock hits the mainstream, and it's easy to keep kind of nice, a really good vibe or sort of familial sense when the scene is small. But when it gets big and gets big, really fast, there's wildcards it turns into, you know, a little bit of a chaotic time.

T-Time 7:12
It wasn't as inclusive as you want it to be?

Amy Pickering 7:16
Yeah, well, yeah, that but also, on top of, that there was Apartheid enslaved around the world, which there still are. But you know, it was there was too much of that stuff in the world for the splintering to take the center stage. So it's just sending out notes, and you know, we have us hanging out at our our summer job for decent. We had a lot of free time there, and we started making ransom notes, sending them out to everybody we needed, like mailing them to their houses. It was a vibe and a call to action.

T-Time 8:00
So what do you what do you do now for work? I know you said you, you worked for Dischord Records? Have you gone back into like the music scene? Or are you still like within the arts in general?

Amy Pickering 8:14
I work at a museum. I live in upstate New York and I say I live in the woods, but really, I live two hours north of the city in sort of a common suburb of the city at this point. That would be the city of New York. So I worked there. There is music around me but it's so many hours away at all times. I don't feel the driving for hours. Every time I want to see a show, so it's hard to be in a music scene in this place.

T-Time 9:01
Just a general closure question. What do you think of the term emo or emo core? I don't see it as an offensive term personally, but I like to ask artists what they think of it?

Amy Pickering 9:13
It was applied by someone was on in the scene, they thought I don't know if they thought it was offensive or not. I don't have a lot to say about it, except for that I just, I just think not- it's just a name. You know what everyone's talking about, and maybe even somebody who is part of it can figure out what too.

T-Time 9:41
Who are your current favorite artists?

Amy Pickering 9:43
The show that I saw most recently was "We Do Macdar", but he's not Malian actually but he plays that style of music people with the Malian guitar stuff, And the show that I saw before that was the Gang of Four which is one of the greatest bands in the whole planet, it's revival style I'm not really seeing many of the bands that are getting back together and touring. I guess I don't feel the urgency to do that. If the band's gonna get back together I don't, somehow it feels okay well that's cool. I don't need to go see it this time I'll see you next time. So I listen to what kind of gets in front of me like that like the Malian guitar which I think is amazing. A lot of classical and opera and sort of underground stations in this area, which I never had in DC. So that is one great radio.

T-Time 11:00
That's, that's what WKNC tries to pride itself on is playing music that doesn't suck.

Amy Pickering 11:07
Right. Just something that kind of gets out of the usual I mean, because even has it's sort of standard Pandora grungy. And I you know, I'm not against that music I just hear the same thing a lot.

T-Time 11:30
Starts to sound the same. Need some diversity needs something experimental

Amy Pickering 11:36
I wanna hear something new, so I'm glad that you guys do that. It was it's definitely so thankful Vassar College is up here. They've got it. Actually SUNY New Paltz where I work has a station it's kind of past the nightshift they get the night shift the cat classical the day shift quantity in the night shift that works out a couple other radio stations, very thankful for the good radio. Maybe that's why DC was what it was... because we didnt have that sort of stream coming in.

T-Time 12:23
Thank you so much for talking with me today. Really appreciate it.

Amy Pickering 12:29
Yes, no problem. Thanks for calling in. Thanks for playing music on the radio.

T-Time 12:35
Absolutely.

Amy Pickering 12:38
All right. Well, thanks for calling.

T-Time 12:39
Thank you.

Amy Pickering 12:40
All right, bye bye.

T-Time 12:43
Post 1985 DC punk was never the same. Throughout the early 90s Emo began to spread across the states losing its punk edge and becoming more melodic, as it headed towards the west coast. Groups like Drive like Jehu, Hoover Jawbreaker, and Fugazi kept the angsty vibe of DC punk, but expanded on the sound by adding more melodic sequences and a more experimental and progressive sound overall, forming what we know as post hardcore. But that's a different story for a different day. If you liked what you heard, give me a follow on Instagram at the Action Index underscore (Actionindex_) while I'll be posting announcements for new episodes, teasers, playlists, bands that I think are cool or anything tangentially email related. It's going to be there. It's a good time. Another huge thank you to Amy for appearing on the first episode of the Action Index. The music you're hearing right now is blue mood by Robert Munzinger. The intro music was Manica Depression by Jeremy Corpus, and the background interview music was Sunday Stroll by Huma Huma all courtesy of the YouTube Audio Library. Thank you so much for listening.